More Anti-Gunner Whining About Wisconsin’s Imminent Passing of Carry Legislation

The hysterics presented by anti-gunners would be funny if they weren’t so pathetic (by they I mean both the anti-gunners and their hysterics). Take for instance this article warning that Wisconsin’s (hopefully) soon to be enacted carry legislation will allow people to carry in parks and at the Milwaukee County Zoo:

“Milwaukee will be like the wild wild west,” Said State Rep. Elizabeth Coggs. “To think that you can take a gun to a park, a bar, a daycare center, the zoo … it’s ridiculous.”

Coggs is correct in that the bill could turn Wisconsin into the Wild West, but it would be like the real Wild West [PDF] not the Hollywood portrayal most anti-gunners seem to have. Of course the anti-gunners are panicking because law abiding citizens will be able to carry at several venues that they like to frequent:

Under the bill, any free outdoor festival without gates does not have the ability to prohibit concealed weapons. That means guns could be present at events like Bastille Days, South Shore Frolics and the Locust Street Festival.

The inability to prohibit concealed weapons would also affect lakefront fireworks displays.

I’m sure Wisconsin will have the same trouble with people being able to legally carry concealed weapons at their open air festivals as the other 48 states who allow some form of carry have. That is to say Wisconsin won’t have any trouble at all.

Here’s the thing Wisconsin, you’re the late comer to the party. Although it has sucked for your citizens it does offer one advantage; you get to see the affects of enacting carry legislation in other states. When you look at each state that has continued to liberalize (the classical definition of the word) their carry laws you’ll notice a pattern of zero increase in violent crime and in many cases a decrease. You will also notice that there have been no apparent cases of arguments between somebody legally carrying a firearm and a third party that escalated to a shooting fight (at least if there has been such a case the anti-gunners haven’t reported on it).

I’m just glad that fewer and fewer people listen to whining anti-gunners. They’ve been crying wolf so long that people no longer take their prophecies of gloom and doom with and amount of seriousness. The difference though is unlike the kid who cried wolf the anti-gunners’ prophecies won’t come true.

You Keep Saying These Things

Wisconsin is on the verge of passing right to carry legislation into law which means the anti-gunners are out screaming that blood will flow through the streets and other such nonsense. As I said before these people are harmless and will lose interest quickly as people stop listening to their prophesies that never come to fruition. Until they lose interest though we’re going to have to listen to the ramblings of crazy people such as this dumb ass:

After the bill was approved by most Republicans and some Democrats, the Assembly will send the bill to Walker to become the law of the land. The move is being hailed as a major victory by those who believe concealed carry provides a much-needed safety net for law-abiding citizens who can now feel free to summon up their inner Clint Eastwood on demand to defend their loved ones.

Of course, that’s a crock.

Many law enforcement officers will tell you how difficult it would be for a regular citizen – even with the required training – to use a handgun in a confrontation with a criminal. No matter how many action movies you may have watched, it’s just not that simple.

More often than not, people would face more danger of having the weapon taken and used against them during an unexpected encounter with a criminal.

The anti-gunners toss around so many lies that it’s almost impossible to keep track of them all. One of them is the myth that you’re more likely to have your gun taken from you and used against your person than to use it to successfully defend yourself. He’s the thing though, every time the anti-gunners make this claim that are unable to back it up with any examples. It’s basically a non-issue. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but the frequency is so rare that the anti-gunners can’t even pull out examples of it happening.

Also I like how he states that law enforcement officers like to tell people how difficult it is to defend yourself with a firearm. You know what’s even more difficult? Getting raped in a back alley while waiting 15 minutes for the police to not arrive because they have no legal obligation to protect you. Anybody who has participated in a shooting sport knows how difficult it become to property utilize a firearm when your adrenaline begins pumping but that’s why we advocate training so strongly. On top of that having a gun, regardless of your capability with the device during a self-defense situation, is still going to increase your odds of surviving much more than not being armed at all.

The bottom line though is the simple fact that none of the claims made by anti-gunners have been proven true. No blood has been flowing through the streets because every street corner turned into a Hollywood version of the Wild West (because the real Wild West wasn’t so wild [PDF]). Violent crime hasn’t gone up, in fact just the opposite has happened. This is why nobody really pays much attention to what the anti-gunners are saying, none of their boogeymen have come out from under their beds to reign terror down upon us.

Wisconsin Assembly Passed Right to Carry Legislation

Things are looking good in Wisconsin. Both chambers of the state legislature have voted in favor of the current carry legislation which means all that’s left is for Governor Walker to sign it into law (which he’s expected to do).

I appears as though Wisconsin will be joining the majority of the Union in allowing its citizens to have a means of self-defense outside of the home. The only state remaining with a complete prohibition against carry is Illinois which will likely take quite some time. Anyways those of you living in Wisconsin please note that the anti-gunners are going to be crying about blood in the streets and other such nonsense but they’ll lose interest very quickly so you can safely continue to ignore them.

Wisconsin Senate Passes Carry Bill

The Wisconsin Senate voted on plan B and passed it with a 25 to 8 vote:

The final vote was 25-8, with all 19 Republicans and six Democrats supporting it, and the other eight Democrats opposed.

The bill is expected to pass the Assembly and Governor Walker has already expressed support for carry legislation. Things are looking up this time around for Wisconsin which will join the 48 other states that allow some form on concealed carry (then Illinois will remain the only holdout). One “representative” against this bill actually made a great argument for expanding on the bill:

Some Democrats pointed to the exemptions as proof that allowing concealed carry does introduce a new set of dangers.

“If this bill helps make Wisconsin safer, then why are there any exceptions?” said Sen. Tim Cullen, D-Janesville. “Are some citizens of Wisconsin protected by this bill and others aren’t? If you go to the county fair are you not as safe as if you go to Summerfest?”

I completely agree with the statement, all exemptions should be removed from the bill and people in Wisconsin should be allowed to have a means of self-defense regardless of where they are. I hope this bill goes through and shortly afterward another bill goes through that removes the exemptions that are listed in the current legislation.

Wisconsin Carry Plan B

Wisconsin remains one of only two states in the Union that doesn’t allow citizens some form of concealed carry. Although pro-rights activists have been trying to fix this a certain previous governor enjoyed the use of veto power to ensure the serfs remained unable to defend themselves. The hope this time around is that Governor Walker won’t be as big of a fucking idiot as former Governor Doyle and thus concealed carry legislation will finally pass in Wisconsin.

The first bill attempted was the best of all worlds and would allow people living in Wisconsin to carry as a right without any required government permission. It appears as though that bill can’t pass thus the backup plan is being enacted which is the same bill but would required people in Wisconsin to get a permit in order to carry. It sounds like this bill may have enough support to get through and by the sounds of it Governor Walker is in support of Wisconsin residences being able to defend themselves. Here’s hoping the people in Wisconsin soon have the same rights as people living in a majority of the other states in the Union.

Logic and Anti-Gunners Simply Don’t Mix

One of my favorite and most used tags on this site is “Logic an Anti-Gunner’s Worst Nightmare.” This is because injecting logic into almost any argument against liberalizing (using the classical meaning of course) gun laws destroys the argument. The Truth About Guns has a prime example of this via a letter to the editor (one of my favorite sources for stupidity as well):

Dear Editor: The passage of the concealed weapons law shows the administration is getting soft on crime. Now criminals will be able to carry weapons for crimes of opportunity, or planned, without fear of being arrested while going to the place of the act. Citizens and police will be put at risk when a crime of passion, anger or substance abuse rears its ugly head. A robbery will turn into a murder when the criminal knows the victim may be armed and shoots at the first movement.

Will the workers and police at the Capitol feel safer when 100,000 people protest and many or most may be armed? It used to be when a person carried a weapon you knew he or she was a criminal; now you will never know. Wait for the civil wrongful death and criminal charges to fill the already backlogged courts. This is another insane move by an increasingly insane administration.

Ken Kamp


The root of most (Hell probably all) anti-gun arguments is emotional. Those who are afraid of guns fear them and feel there must be strict controls placed on the ownership of firearms in order to keep their delicate feelings secure. I should point out that when most anti-gunners say strict controls they mean a complete prohibition but alas I’m getting sidetracked.

The claim of Mr. Kamp is that passing right to carry legislation in Wisconsin will allow criminals to carry firearms. Now the flaw in this argument is the fact that shootings happen in Wisconsin which means people are already carrying firearms. Carrying a firearm in a concealed manner is completely illegal right now and openly carrying a firearm will get you attacked by the police in some cities. Needless to say most of the shootings aren’t being caused by lawful citizens openly carrying firearms but by those concealing and therefore violating Wisconsin law. A criminal by definition is a person who violates the law and thus aren’t concerned with the legality of their actions.

If somebody is willing to commit an egregious act such as murder you can bet good money they have no problem violating a law against concealing a firearm as well. The only difference that Wisconsin will notice if they pass right to carry legislation is the average citizen will have a means of defending themselves against criminals. Heck Wisconsin may notice the same thing many other states with liberalized (classic definition) carry laws have, a lower overall violent crime rate. If what Mr. Kamp says is true then at least one state that has liberalized (classical definition) it’s carry laws should have noticed some uptick in their violent crime rate but so far none have. This seems to be the best argument against anti-gunners, violent crime hasn’t increase in states that made it easier for lawful citizens to carry firearms. Some states have seen a decrease in violent crime while others have noticed no change but not one state has seen an increase.

You can scream that the sky is falling for only so long until people stop listening to you. Thankfully it seems more and more people are at that point with the anti-gunners and are now unwilling to listen to the idiotic arguments being made in the hopes of increase gun control legislation.

Carry Legislation Introduced in Wisconsin

Gun rights are moving fast in the upper Midwest. Minnesota is pushing for self-defense reform and now Wisconsin is pushing to give the citizens there the right to self-defense. What’s most interesting through is how this legislation was introduced:

State Representative Jeff Mursau (R-Crivitz) and Senator Pam Galloway (R- Wausau) wrote two bills, one requiring licensure and one without a licensing component.

One bill would enact what is usually referred to as constitutional carry while the other would be more akin to Minnesota’s law which require a license in order to practice your “right.” Wisconsin’s House and Senate have passed carry legislation before but it was vetoed by their previous scumbag governor Doyle:

The Wisconsin measure has a good chance of becoming law, as Republicans control both the Senate and Assembly and Republican Gov. Scott Walker has indicated his support for the idea. Republicans passed it in 2004 and 2006, but both times then-Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat, vetoed it.

That asshole is gone and Walker has said he supports the idea of carry in Wisconsin so there is a good change that those living in Wisconsin will have the right to defend themselves with the best tool available. Of course the police aren’t in support of this bill at it would allow the peasants to defend themselves and erode the police’s government granted monopoly on the use of force:

Police organizations in both states have vociferously opposed legalizing carrying concealed weapons, saying it puts public safety officers and the public in danger. But the National Rifle Association and other supporters of the legalization argue it’s needed for people to protect themselves from criminals, many of whom do not obtain firearms legally.

Unless the various police organizations can demonstrate numerous situations where carry legislation has lead to dangerous situations for police officers this claim is completely bogus. We’ve learned through having carry legislation in 48 states that nothing bad has come of such laws and in many cases the rate of violent crime has dipped. Let the police organizations continue to make their false statements, they’re baseless.

On the legislation itself I will note that the Wisconsin bill requiring a license sounds similar to Minnesota’s although it would be cheaper:

Under the bill creating the licensing system, people 21 years old and over could apply to obtain a license valid for five years at a time from the state Department of Justice. Applicants would have to pay a $13 background check fee and an application fee of up to $52.

Likewise the legislation would have similar restrictions:

Concealed weapons would not be allowed in police stations, jails, courthouses, beyond the security checkpoint in airports, or on school grounds. Homeowners, businesses and governments could also prohibit concealed weapons on their property. Likewise, convicted felons, convicted domestic abusers, anyone with a restraining order against them and anyone committing a crime could not legally carry a concealed weapon.

But the definition of a weapon would be more broad than we have in Minnesota:

Concealed weapons are defined as a handgun, an electric weapon, a billy club, or a knife other than a switchblade.

In Minnesota those of us given permission by the state to carry a gun can do so but carrying one of those horrible switchblades is still a gross misdemeanor. It’s nice to see the authors of Wisconsin’s bills realize the type of weapon being carried isn’t really relevant.

It’s Not Collective Bargaining, It’s Monopoly Coercion

There’s been a massive shit storm hitting the capital in Wisconsin and that shit storm has started spilling out over the border to my capital. I’ve not stated much on this subject because I’ve not had a whole lot to say but now that I’ve done a bit of research I feel I can make some actual comments on the subject.

First let us do away with the term “collective bargaining” because that’s not what the teachers of Wisconsin currently have. I propose a new term to use called “monopoly bargaining.” I’m a person who believes if a group of employees want to voluntarily come together to fight for better working conditions that is their rights. They key word there is voluntarily. As it sits in Wisconsin every teacher in that state has to become a member of the teacher’s union. There is only one union, not multiple ones available to compete for your membership dues, and anybody who wants to be a teacher must join this single union.

What we have isn’t a collective of people bound together to fight for better wages, instead we have a monopoly whom people are forced to pay money to. I have a huge problem with this type of setup because it causes potential conflicts of interest for teachers. If you pay union dues I guarantee you some of that money will end up being donated to the Democrat Party. Personally I can’t in good conscious allow any of my money to find its way into the pockets of those fuckheads. This principle would bar me from being a teach in Wisconsin since there is no way to do so without paying the union and the union donates to the Democrat Party.

Now we have my two least favorite things; money stolen from the pockets of people and mandatory donations to a political party. The only thing that could make this situation more distasteful in my opinion is if they Wisconsin teacher union were allowed to use force to enact their desires, thankfully the government still maintains a firm grip on their monopoly over the use of force.

Collective bargaining would only be an accurate term if individual teachers could come together and fight for better working conditions. Teachers aren’t allowed this luxury instead having to rely on one monopolistic union which they must be a member of. This is the main point people seem to be missing. Wisconsin doesn’t currently allow its teachers collective bargaining rights, they force teachers to become a member in an entity that will fight only for a set of ideals while teachers whom wish to go against the union have no recourse. If the union of Wisconsin doesn’t want something then it won’t be fought for leaving teachers who do want that out on the cold with needs remaining unfulfilled by the entity they are forced to pay money to.

The other thing I find interesting about this whole fiasco is the fact the people who are actually paying the bills, tax payers, aren’t present in any teacher salary negotiations. When you work in the public sector you’re paid tax dollars. Each teacher working in a public school system is paid through our money yet we don’t get to be present when their union comes to “negotiate” higher wages for teachers. Bargaining usually implies a buyer and seller haggling for an outcome that both sides find mutually beneficial. In the case of public employees the employees can be considered the sellers (selling us on the idea they need higher wages) while the tax payers can be considered the buyers (buying the services of the public employees). The problem comes when these negotiations comes around it’s between the seller and a third party who will not actually be footing the bill.

When a public union negotiates higher wages for the employees it represents it means more money will be taken from the private sector and sent to the public sector. The people who have this money, you and me, get no say in the matter. Hence what these unions do can’t really be considered bargaining or negotiations, instead it would be coercion. The union is using the government’s monopoly on the use of force to take money from private citizens and give it to public employees. So to be more accurate we should call what the Wisconsin teacher’s union does monopoly coercion (monopoly within the realm of teacher pay) not collective bargaining.

The entire situation is being misrepresented by entities that only continue to exist if people are forced to pay them a tax. Needless to say it’s in the union’s best interest to ensure their monopoly use on forcing tax payers to foot a higher bill continues. Now that we’ve defined the real problem let’s work on finding a real solution.

Taking Their Ball and Going Home

Quite the shit storm has hit Wisconsin. Their governor has introduced legislation that is disagreeable to the teacher union in an attempt to stop the state from hemorrhaging money. As you can guess many teachers are pissed because they may have to pay more into their pension account and may lose their collective bargaining rights. Either way some schools were shut down Thursday as teachers walked out. But that’s not the most interesting battle, not by a long shot.

To delay voting the Democrats at the Wisconsin capital walked out, refusing to vote in the hopes of delaying passage of the bill under scrutiny:

Walker, who took office last month, called on the Democrats to return to the Capitol and finish their work. Police were ordered to search for the lawmakers and bring them back to Madison.

“Their actions, by leaving the state and hiding from voting, are disrespectful to the hundreds of thousands of public employees who showed up to work today and the millions of taxpayers they represent,” Walker said.

Yes they stormed out and the governor sent the police after them. I wonder how government officials like having the right hand of their authority sent after them? Either way the Democrats, being politicians, knew what to do:

The 14 Democrats turned out to be holed up at a Best Western in Rockford, Ill., where, they said, Wisconsin law enforcement had no jurisdiction. They said they later dispersed, but remained outside the state.

Good move, get out of the state you represent. Obviously the democrats are cheering this action as heroic while the republicans are decrying this as cowardice. Personally I think it’s a failure to perform the jobs they were hired to do and should be fired immediately.

“Representatives” are elected to represent our interests in law making (they rarely do it but that’s their job). They are hired to debate issues and vote on legislation. By walking out the democrats in Wisconsin’s legislature are refusing to perform the job they were hired to do. In the private sector you would be fired for that kind of action and somebody willing to do the job would be hired. If I were the citizens of Wisconsin I’d demand a recall election for each legislator who fled the state, they aren’t doing the job you’re paying them to do. They should be at the capital right now explaining why the proposed legislation is bad not hiding in a hotel in Illinois probably paid for with tax payer money.

Simply taking your ball and going home is childish at best. Do the democrats in Wisconsin feel powerless to stop this proposed budget? Is that why they ran? Welcome to our world. Those of us outside of the legislature get fucked over by you pricks all the time when you pass legislation we disagree with but have no power to stop (see the Health Insurance Company Enrichment Act). The “representatives” who fled to Illinois are finally getting a taste of what the regular citizen gets every time a bad piece of legislation (in other words most legislation) gets crammed through against their wishes. Feeling powerless isn’t so great is it?